X5m vs Cayenne Turbo vs 2012 SRT8 by MotorTrend

[QuickOne]

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/suvs/1108_2011_bmw_x5_2012_jeep_grand_cherokee_srt8_201 1_porsche_cayenne_turbo_comparison/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter


FIRST PLACE: 2011 Porsche Cayenne Turbo
No other SUV takes as many people and things to extraordinary velocities as this luxurious Porsche.

SECOND PLACE: 2011 BMW X5 M
This surefooted Bavarian bomber offers plenty of go, stow, and tow -- but not quite at Cayenne levels.

THIRD PLACE: 2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT8
Loud and proud, the mighty Jeep is one of most enjoyable Michigan-bred rides, but falls short of the 500-club Germans.

[Scottina06]

not really a suprise

[mjw930]

Can you spot the error in this paragraph? ;)

But with tauter suspensions employing traditional coil springs/non-adjustable dampers (Jeep), adaptive dampers (BMW), and self-leveling air "springs" (Porsche), each was livable over multiple commuting days. We preferred BMW and Porsche's distinctly German method of suspension calibration, which combines adequate cushiness and surprising responsiveness, to the Jeep's slightly jarring one-dimensional, non-adjustable Bilsteins. Our numerous passengers did, too.

[Scottina06]

non adjustable Bilsteins...boy smart guys. the bilsteins are advertised as active damping. Im not dfamiliar witht he BMW m suspension...so i cant comment

[mjw930]

I think they missed that one because the damping isn't called out like it is on the German cars. The Selectrac is "foreign" to them (Pun intended).

Like you I didn't see the results as a surprise. I've owned a Cayenne TT and although it was the first generation the way it delivered power and handled it's mass simply defied physics.

[Schleprock]

IMO, that BMW interior is awful. (I think the M5 interior is just as bad, too) It looks no different than a 3 series interior from the mid-90's. And every time I look at the X5m I see a "mini-SUV" look to it.

[Scottina06]

the mags LOVE german cars....its like ESPN's love for DUKE. They could put out a turd on wheels and it would be world class to them. That interior is nowhere near the Jeeps IMO. What bothered me about BMW interiors was lack of quality materials and they are VERY busy.

[Scottina06]

after looking at the pics again...the porche is the same way...way too many buttons/controls on the console

[Milous]

after looking at the pics again...the porche is the same way...way too many buttons/controls on the console
I can't believe that BMW is still using that "designed by morons" iDrive control!

[jeep2011]

IMO, that BMW interior is awful. (I think the M5 interior is just as bad, too) It looks no different than a 3 series interior from the mid-90's. And every time I look at the X5m I see a "mini-SVU" look to it.

+1 BMW interiors are just plain awful. That is why I have never bought one. I hate everything inside lights up red too.

[Milous]

+1 BMW interiors are just plain awful. That is why I have never bought one. I hate everything inside lights up red too.
Reminds me of 90s Honda interiors.

[DaBigBone]

Who cares if it lost, I'd still take the SRT8 over those other things

[mjw930]

Who cares if it lost, I'd still take the SRT8 over those other things

In a way they agree with you. If money was no object the Porsche is and always has been the SUV to aspire to (for me and many others). When you factor everything in the Jeep wins hands down, even with the $10K second sticker Chrysler slapped on it.

[Schleprock]

Is it safe to say that a good supercharger/turbo setup and tuning would put the SRT8 on level ground performance-wise? If so, you'd still be $20-40,000 in the bank compared to the others right?

[mjw930]

I've been a sports car enthusiast for 40+ years but I never warmed up to BMW. The praise they get is a mystery to me, they have always felt cheap to me going back to the original 2002 Ti.

A comment made by Bob Lutz, one of the straightest shooters in the automotive industry, sums it up for me. To quote him, "A BMW 3 series costs within $100 of a Malibu to build, it's the perception of quality designed into the fit, finish and marketing that allows it to cost twice as much".

[mjw930]

Is it safe to say that a good supercharger/turbo setup and tuning would put the SRT8 on level ground performance-wise? If so, you'd still be $20-40,000 in the bank compared to the others right?

Probable from an acceleration standpoint but the refinement of the drivetrain would probably still put the Porsche in front on a road course.

But, I guess you would still have enough left over to buy an Overland compared to what the Porsche cost ;)

[rusty104]

Is it safe to say that a good supercharger/turbo setup and tuning would put the SRT8 on level ground performance-wise? If so, you'd still be $20-40,000 in the bank compared to the others right?
Don't hold your breath, it may be easier said than done. Hennesy is still wrestling with the 5.7l ecu. The 6.4 is much more complicated with its cylinder deactivation.
I wish we could though!

[Scottina06]

IMO...I would get an SRT Jeep and an Overland summit to tow the SRT to the track before the Porsche...LOL. Not gonna lie...I love the Porsche trubo though.....

[Scottina06]

Don't hold your breath, it may be easier said than done. Hennesy is still wrestling with the 5.7l ecu. The 6.4 is much more complicated with its cylinder deactivation.
I wish we could though!

The 5.7 has the same cylinder deactivation....right? The 6.4 is based on the 5.7...right? But the ecu is tough to break on any new car. It took like 2 years on the gen 1 SRT8

[Schleprock]

I've been a sports car enthusiast for 40+ years but I never warmed up to BMW. The praise they get is a mystery to me, they have always felt cheap to me going back to the original 2002 Ti.

A comment made by Bob Lutz, one of the straightest shooters in the automotive industry, sums it up for me. To quote him, "A BMW 3 series costs within $100 of a Malibu to build, it's the perception of quality designed into the fit, finish and marketing that allows it to cost twice as much".
I just cannot get into them either. I fail to see what is so damn wonderful about the M3 in particular. I enjoyed Jeremy Clarkson busting on it earlier this year when they compared it to the S5 on Top Gear. "£5,000 for the Competition Package, and what do you get........absolutely nothing."

[lll2for3lll]

I'd still get the SRT WK2 if I had the loot. Boost it with other mods and fun fun fun.



With a different set of wheels of course.

[viking757]

I'd still get the SRT WK2 if I had the loot. Boost it with other mods and fun fun fun.



With a different set of wheels of course.

Ya I'm not feeling those wheels either...

[rusty104]

The 5.7 has the same cylinder deactivation....right? The 6.4 is based on the 5.7...right? But the ecu is tough to break on any new car. It took like 2 years on the gen 1 SRT8
I should have said "The 6.4 is much more complicated with its cylinder deactivation than the 6.1 but the results Hennesy had with it were amazing once they figured it out." It probably will be figured out but if it took 2 years for the 6.1, I got to think the 6.4 will take longer (and the 5.7 once they crack the ECU).

[Scottina06]

I knew what you meant after posting that...meant to edit it. Good points!

[Unsequestered]

Just got back from seeing the srt on tour, and just thought I'd post some of the questions I had answered by actually seeing it. One thing that scared me was the wheel cant that was obvious on the bull run model. This one had no cant at all. Secondly was the spare tire issue. There in fact is a full size spare. With run flats, all of those looking to put their jeep on a diet can easily save the 30+ lbs by storing it when not on a road trip.

I don't recall these questions being clearly answered and hope I'm not repeating common knowledge.

[Scottina06]

full size spare would save prolly 70 pounds....LOL


good info

[Unsequestered]

Yea... It's just a generic full size spare for the rear tires only, and I like to be conservative in my estimations

[Scottina06]

BUT...it will work on all four corners since the wk2 SRT has the same size wheels/tires all around.

Good Find!

[hound]

Like a stamped steel wheel?

[Milous]

There in fact is a full size spare.
Standard for production vehicles is a compact spare.

[Unsequestered]

In the srt on the tour was a full size standard spare that would fit only the rear wheels. It would not fit the front because of the larger brimbos. Don't forget though, we have run flats, and if the front wheel has catastrophic failure then a rear wheel must be moved to the front and spare attached to a wheel with the smaller calipers... Aka rear. This is what I was told by the jeeps srt driver. I did see the spare myself and it is not compact. I don't think compact will work because of the bulging calipers. I don't consider it a big deal... I mean how often does one have complete failure of a run flat? The only need for a spare I can come up with is if I'm in Wyoming or canada and the nearest shop is 300 miles away

[VerbalKint]

Just got back from seeing the srt on tour, and just thought I'd post some of the questions I had answered by actually seeing it. One thing that scared me was the wheel cant that was obvious on the bull run model. This one had no cant at all. Secondly was the spare tire issue. There in fact is a full size spare. With run flats, all of those looking to put their jeep on a diet can easily save the 30+ lbs by storing it when not on a road trip.

I don't recall these questions being clearly answered and hope I'm not repeating common knowledge.
What did you think of of the exterior and interior? Did you get to drive it?

[Unsequestered]

I did not ask to drive it... It was hooked up to trailer. Exterior has grown on me overnight and i love it, very masculine in the black. The wheels were also better then expected, like a brushed steel, no shine in the sunlight. Metallic paint shimmered in the sun and was flat in the shade, very nice as well. Interior was ok, bare srt styling, but leather surfaces like dash were nice. And the plug in the back seat to power equipment was three pronged, so that will come in handy. U can ask me any questions and I'll try to answer them whole it's still fresh in my head.

[MikeD]

I just cannot get into them either. I fail to see what is so damn wonderful about the M3 in particular. I enjoyed Jeremy Clarkson busting on it earlier this year when they compared it to the S5 on Top Gear. "£5,000 for the Competition Package, and what do you get........absolutely nothing."


Go drive an M3, as someone who has owned an '06 SRT8 Jeep and now an '11 Overland and a '08 M3 Sedan there is no comparison on interior quality, engine and performance. I agree the interior's on BMW's are a little dark but quality is flawless, my WK2 has misaligned panels and the wood around the start button is not flush at all. I like my Overland but honestly my '06 SRT8 with horrible plastics was tighter and felt better to drive.

[richxgior]

looks wise, the srt8 takes the cake...that bmw is gross. but it seems like he had nothing good to say about the jeep..he prob owns a german car. not to mention in the early of the video its breaking and turning was the best with the huge brembos!

[Scottina06]

ourHDqPkGq0&

[Schleprock]

"certainly different"......*snarks*

WTF was that? Seemed a little pompous if you ask me. And then a shocker, choosing the vehicle that costs double what one competitor does, and $20-30k what the other does.

[08Hemi]

this thread is very interesting...my dad is a german car guy (he has had over 15 porsches, 5+ bmw's, 5 amg's 8 total benz's) currently has a 2009 550i, 2011 x5 v6 with m-body kit and 2011 carrera S...he went 10+ years in between his last bmw and the 2 he has now. his 550 (replaced his 05' E55) is a great car and he loves it, I was impressed. he got the x5 for my mom, I was never a fan until now. the fit/finish/8-speed tranny is so much better than anything in the wk2...I have never been in an x5m so I cannot comment on that, but to say bmw is crap (seems like multiple peeps feel that way) IMO is a little strong. and sorry scott but i can't agree that the quality of interior is better than porsche's...I agree that the Cayenne has wayyy too much going on in the center console and buttons, hell even my dad's carrera is "busy", and I guess i need to see the srt interior first, but I have a really hard time believing that the prosche interior and quality (maybe not asthecits and/or layout/taste) is inferior. I am amazed that the srt will be $60k, but you gotta pay to play and I def think it is a smart business decision. fwiw I would take the srt and $40k in my pocket over the x5m and what $50k+ over the cayenne TT??? god i love cars

[Scottina06]

I didnt say the wk2 SRT's interior was better.....I said I didnt like the BMW interiors and the Porsches console was too busy. It looks like nasa spacecraft. But the WK2's interior has won awards....one was top 10 IN THE WORLD!

[Scottina06]

and the BMW's I have been in are crap...cheap materials. Now I cant say Ive been in any of the fancy schmansy Bimmers like your pops......but I have seen quite a few. lexus puts them to shame IMO.

[rusty104]

You don't want to own an X5 when the warranty is up. Trust me, as soon as you pop the hood on that baby your wallet is history. Look at its reliability,
If the X5M, the Porsche Turbo and the JGC Srt8 were all the same price fully equiped, I'd take the Porsche fiirst and the JGC second. But they aren't.
I love it when the car mags quote at the base prices for each - forget it . Even with the PorscheTurbo they whack you with a huge fee for any little accesory. Compare a fully loaded JGC SRT8 with a comparably equiped BMW or Porsche.

[richxgior]

all stock bmws are gross inside, there plain, nothing special about the seats or anything...the porsche are really nice tho..prob a little nice then the jeep. jeep exterior is better tho..

[soontobesrt]

Rather buy the Jeep, invest the the $40k and then buy another one and have two :) $100k, pshhhh, no SUV exists that worth nearly that in my mind, not even the Porsche.

I think the potential to not spend more $ but spend less and invest more will ultimately allow us to buy more down the line. Jeep now, Ferrari later is better than BMW now and BMW forever :/

[VerbalKint]

"certainly different"......*snarks*

WTF was that? Seemed a little pompous if you ask me. And then a shocker, choosing the vehicle that costs double what one competitor does, and $20-30k what the other does.
That video was interesting......

The SRT8 ended up with a lot of "far" shots and he was really exaggerating how much he had to lean into the turns in the SRT8.... Biased, but that is expected to some degree.

If the 2012 Jeep SRT8 is successful and delivers as expected, I'm sure there will be a bandwagon of journalist not too far behind.

[mjw930]

To me the things about the handling are there because they engineered them in not because the SRT is inferior. I love Porsche's and have owned a CTT so I know exactly what they experienced. I disagree that it's a better "drivers" experience. They (SRT) intentionally designed in "tail looseness" on the SRT. To me, that would seem to provide a more enjoyable (read FUN) experience than the sterile, uneventful experience in the CTT. That sterile experience is why old timers like me like the GT3 over the Turbo, we want to go fast and KNOW we are going fast as well as knowing it takes a higher level of skill to go REALLY fast vs. the Dr. who takes his Turbo to a coupe DE events and thinks he's Mario Andretti.

[tri0829]

the porsche looks cool but is way too expensive. the bmw is overrated and way to expensive. the jeep is underrated and costs almost half the price of these cars. i hate how all the car mags hate on american cars just cause their american. it makes no sense. my dad has an m3 and i have to say that its nice i like the design of the bmw interior but i dont think its insanely better than an overland wk2. european and japanese cars are so overrated its insane, i hate defending american brands to ignorant people who think that american=crap its just not true.

[Carbon6]

I would still take a Cayenne... hate to say it, but between pricing, wheels, and other various other items I would take the Cayenne any day. And the Turbo gets 20+ mpg during every day driving.

[QuickOne]

I would still take a Cayenne... hate to say it, but between pricing, wheels, and other various other items I would take the Cayenne any day. And the Turbo gets 20+ mpg during every day driving.
Price point aside....100% agree. I love the new one. It looks lean and mean and does everything I want it to do. Faster, Better Mileage, Tows more, and can raise and lower when needed.
But......The ever glaring issue....
$50K MORE!!

[Scottina06]

LOL...all the onesI have seen at $60K more

[mjw930]

Price point aside....100% agree. I love the new one. It looks lean and mean and does everything I want it to do. Faster, Better Mileage, Tows more, and can raise and lower when needed.
But......The ever glaring issue....
$50K MORE!!

Based on historical resale just wait 24 months and pick up one coming off lease for around $70K. :eek:

[Scottina06]

wow....talk about taking a hit on resale.....

[BostonDMD]

That sterile experience is why old timers like me like the GT3 over the Turbo, we want to go fast and KNOW we are going fast as well as knowing it takes a higher level of skill to go REALLY fast vs. the Dr. who takes his Turbo to a coupe DE events and thinks he's Mario Andretti.
Are you saying anyone with a Dr. in front of their name can't drive?:eek:
I beg to differ as I am in NJ for a PCA race week-end as Irene is coming in.....

[MikeD]

Are you saying anyone with a Dr. in front of their name can't drive?:eek:
I beg to differ as I am in NJ for a PCA race week-end as Irene is coming in.....


Why don't you just become a pro race car driver since you seem to mention how great you are in practically every post you make?

[mjw930]

Are you saying anyone with a Dr. in front of their name can't drive?:eek:
I beg to differ as I am in NJ for a PCA race week-end as Irene is coming in.....

I was wondering how long it would take for you to catch that ;)

I will say thet I've instructed a number of "professionals" who have the money to buy the car but need to stick with their day jobs. :eek:

The painful reality is far too many of the people who can afford a high end sports car really aren't very talented drivers.

OTOH, I raced offshore with a dentist who was one of the most talented and gracious persons I have ever met so generalizations aren't really fair. :thumbsup::thumbsup:

[BostonDMD]

Why don't you just become a pro race car driver since you seem to mention how great you are in practically every post you make?

My post was a response to another racer, so until you become one, mind your own business.......

[BostonDMD]

I was wondering how long it would take for you to catch that ;)

I will say thet I've instructed a number of "professionals" who have the money to buy the car but need to stick with their day jobs. :eek:

The painful reality is far too many of the people who can afford a high end sports car really aren't very talented drivers.

OTOH, I raced offshore with a dentist who was one of the most talented and gracious persons I have ever met so generalizations aren't really fair. :thumbsup::thumbsup:

I couldn't agree with you more about people with expensive cars and lack of talent......:thumbsup:

[MikeD]

My post was a response to another racer, so until you become one, mind your own business.......

Sorry...Didn't realize you were a "racer". :lol:

[Scottina06]

can anyone comment how the TT Cayenne does in the heat of summer?

[MikeD]

can anyone comment how the TT Cayenne does in the heat of summer?

I raced one in my '06 SRT8 from a roll and it wasn't even close, he pulled away from me easily. I know the WK1 suffered from heat soak, apparently the Cayenne didn't.