View Full Version : 8's in the doors, mounting depth nightmare!
Karpe
06-20-2009, 04:45 PM
I just picked up a set of the Peerless SLS 8" drivers for my midbass in the doors. These guys http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1386
They are 100mm depth which translates to just shy of 4" mounting depth.
and they have X-max 8.5mm or .335 inches.
My dilemma:
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y117/Bow2Zeus/3inchdepth.jpg
Think I can trim a bit of the back of the doorcard and get away with inch thick baffles and some clay? or am I going to have to cut an 8" hole on the doorcard and fashion my own grills? I wanted to keep this stealth:mad:
They won't fit behind the door card (as stock) with 1" baffles?
I really can't tell what's going on in the picture, sorry...also, keep in mind the window has to be able to go down. So make sure to account for that.
Karpe
06-20-2009, 05:36 PM
that pic is a measurement from the glass to the door frame. it's exactly 3"
So my mounting depth is approx 4.3" and I have to be able to roll down the windows...
Shit shit shit, I don't want to make my own grills and hack up the doors. grrrrrr
that pic is a measurement from the glass to the door frame. it's exactly 3"
So my mounting depth is approx 4.3" and I have to be able to roll down the windows...
Shit shit shit, I don't want to make my own grills and hack up the doors. grrrrrr
Oh okay, yeah the reflection was throwing me off, haha.
So, mounting depth is solved with 1" baffles... now, have you checked the "reverse" mounting depth (for lack of a better word). Basically if you use a 1" baffle + maybe another .5" accounting for xmax and clay will that fit behind the door card without modification?
Essentially, how far is the door card from the inner skin of the door frame? If you have your ~1.5" then you are all set. If not, well then you can either get a different mid (OEM, SLS 6.5's, etc) or hack up the door card and see if you can fab up a decent looking grill "extension."
...oh the joy of your first active stereo :D:D:D:D:D
Now I remember why I sold all that mess off, hehe.
On another subject: I'm sooooo curious to see what your findings are for the full-range. This may be looking to far ahead, but are you planning on trying the factory dash location or something different? I ask because I never had the chance to try my full-range (RS100) in the dash - they were too big. I aimed them slightly off-axis in the pillars - they were wonderful there. Fawk, I wish I kept all my old stuf, haha.
TimmyB
06-20-2009, 06:00 PM
I want to learn something here, whats a "door card" and whats "xmax"? And while im at it whats an active stereo?
I want to learn something here, whats a "door card" and whats "xmax"? And while im at it whats an active stereo?
Door card: The actual interior piece of the door that you pull off to mount your speakers.
Xmax: The peak linear travel of the driver. Basically how much the surround is going to move.
Actively managed stereo: *warning: don't do it, it's just a money pit* :D The term active refers to "actively" or having the ability to adjust the crossover points and slopes of your drivers. This typically includes an array of other digital sound processing features such as, time alignment, phase adjustment (though this can be done by simply reversing the polarity of the speaker...i.e. flipping the pos and neg wires), level control, EQ - usually a very nice EQ, and some other things depending on the processing manufacturer. The idea is to purchase raw drivers (like Andy is doing or like I did in my first build) and designing (basically by trial and error) your own network for the speakers to be run on. It's extremely time consuming, can be very expensive, but... it's fun as hell. Especially all the knowledge you gain just from all the research. I read about this crap for almost 1.5 years before embarking on my first active stereo. I did have a passive system at the time, but it can be an entirely superior set-up if done correctly.
Andy, just got done reading about the FR88, man do those sound sooooo promising for a tweeterless set-up. They look awesome on paper! If they don't sound good in the dash location firing at the windshield, just glass those pups in the corners of the dash, aimed slightly off-axis and you'll be golden. If they say they have a better upper-end compared to the RS100's, then you will be in business my friend. *sooo jeleous*
Karpe
06-20-2009, 06:18 PM
the door card is the fancy/factory term for the interior piece that you see from inside the vehicle that mounts over the actual door skin.
Outer doorskin is exterior>Inner door skin is the framing ( the OEM speakers are attached to this)> The door card covers all that pretty mess
Xmax is the Maximum excursion of the driver. Basically the cone moves in and out along with the magnet. So the Xmax is the distance that the driver would travel from resting position.
Active VS Passive
Passive is when you use Comps like you have and the crossovers are predetermined by the manufacturer and contained in a pretty case.
Active is when the processing and crossovers are done from Either a headunit with the capabilities to control or a separate processer.
Active set ups have a much wider range of tuning options to dial in the audio a lot more. Passives are cheaper and easier but have less control.
Matt turned me onto DIYMA back in October and I've been reading hardcore about the DIY audio world since and I am absolutely fascinated. I didnt think it would take this long to plan a system out, but I've had a good time learning and buying and selling.
Next paycheck I'm buying the install gear and the dampening and then I'll be installing EVERYTHING.
My goal is to have it all installed and mostly tuned by July 24TH. I'll be working the Van's warped tour florida dates so I have to drive to Orlando then to Miami then back to Tampa within 72 hours.
Karpe
06-20-2009, 06:21 PM
Right after my FR88's showed up I read about how they were designed by Hustler Audio and they have a 4 ohm version dropping soon that will be even better. O well....
I do plan to hid them in the dash, but if they dont fit or are too bright, I will fiberglass pods out of the dash grills. My Roomates dad has a lot of experience so hopefully he will help.
Matt turned me onto DIYMA back in October and I've been reading hardcore about the DIY audio world since and I am absolutely fascinated. I didnt think it would take this long to plan a system out, but I've had a good time learning and buying and selling.
Amen! Very fascinating how technical car audio can get.
Next paycheck I'm buying the install gear and the dampening and then I'll be installing EVERYTHING.
Woo!
My goal is to have it all installed and mostly tuned by July 24TH. I'll be working the Van's warped tour florida dates so I have to drive to Orlando then to Miami then back to Tampa within 72 hours.
I think you can make it. As long as you can the SLS's in there without any issues, then you should be money. Expect at least a few days of primitive tuning. You probably won't have it all dialed in perfectly by the trip, but at least enough to have it sound good. Unfortunately tuning requires you to log a lot of hours... and time to let your ears rest or "reset" - sounds crazy, but you'll see what I mean soon. :D
Where do you plan on crossing the SLS's at (low-pass)? I'd say you want them as high as you can go... maybe 500hz @ 24 db/oct....? Those things are going to rip your head off man, haha. You'll likely get those in and be like "what sub, I don't need no stinkin sub!" - of course I take all donations of XBL^2 drivers. :D :p
Right after my FR88's showed up I read about how they were designed by Hustler Audio and they have a 4 ohm version dropping soon that will be even better. O well....
I do plan to hid them in the dash, but if they dont fit or are too bright, I will fiberglass pods out of the dash grills. My Roomates dad has a lot of experience so hopefully he will help.
Are the ones you have 8ohms? If so, I think I'd prefer those; especially with the power you have on tap. That gain knob will barely be cracked.
I think the dash may work well. The factory drivers are there and without any DSP they don't seem to bright/harsh. Plus, it would be more stealth... I know you and I both much prefer that.
TimmyB
06-20-2009, 06:32 PM
Great, thanks both of you for the info. I havent done a system since I was like 18, so its slowly coming back to me. Just all the tuning knobs on these amps and then the diff set-ups on the crossovers i have is confusing to me enough, nevermind an active set-up.
Great, thanks both of you for the info. I havent done a system since I was like 18, so its slowly coming back to me. Just all the tuning knobs on these amps and then the diff set-ups on the crossovers i have is comnusing to me enough, nevermind an active set-up.
haha, yeah I hear ya man. If can definitely be overwhelming.
Andy, make sure you deaden the shit out of those tin cans Jeep calls a door. I had both the outer and inner skin deadened and the clay behind the baffles and I still rattled the hell out of my side moldings... with my measly 6.5 OEM's and 125w :p I don't want to know what those SLS's are going to do, haha.
Karpe
06-20-2009, 06:38 PM
yep they are 8ohm
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y117/Bow2Zeus/IMG_01021.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y117/Bow2Zeus/IMG_01051.jpg
^^ Oh, I though you were talking about the Founteks. Still, I'd probably prefer 8ohm in the SLS's as well. Gobs of power is the most overrated thing in car audio anyways. A clean 100w and those will sing!
EDIT: Both drivers are 8ohm, correct? That's what I'd prefer. And the Mag is single 4ohm right? Man that's a perfect driver combo.
Karpe
06-20-2009, 06:51 PM
Yes sir!
all thats left on my checklist is"
Streetwires CBR44
Kicker PKD4
Techflex
some ring terminals and other random install gear
and the deadening stuff
Oh yeah and RCA's shit
so, mounting depth is solved with 1" baffles... Now, have you checked the "reverse" mounting depth (for lack of a better word). Basically if you use a 1" baffle + maybe another .5" accounting for xmax and clay will that fit behind the door card without modification?
Essentially, how far is the door card from the inner skin of the door frame? If you have your ~1.5" then you are all set. If not, well then you can either get a different mid (oem, sls 6.5's, etc) or hack up the door card and see if you can fab up a decent looking grill "extension."
where do you plan on crossing the sls's at (low-pass)? I'd say you want them as high as you can go... Maybe 500hz @ 24 db/oct....? Those things are going to rip your head off man, haha. You'll likely get those in and be like "what sub, i don't need no stinkin sub!" - of course i take all donations of xbl^2 drivers.
....
Karpe
06-21-2009, 11:10 AM
I dont have a plan yet as far as tuning, I'm still learning that stuff.
i'm stressing the install right now, then comes tuning
TimmyB
06-21-2009, 11:43 AM
Sorry to thread jack but you two def seem to know what your talking about. I am making a ported sub enclosure for my 10W6v2 following the demensions on JL's spec sheet for the sub, except im widening it slightly to compensate for some braceing im throwing in the corners. Two questions, If I want to make the back slanted can I just subtract say 2" from the top depth and add 2" to the bottom depth and keep the port dimensions (port Lenght and width) the same except slant it (referred as extension length on there drawing) parallel with the back?
And I keep hearing people say they fill the enclosure with a poly fiber or some sort of filler, is this needed or something I would want to do?
Timmy, I'd just use an aero port. A 4" flared aero would be perfect. Slot ports are ugly.
Polyester Fiberfill (or poly fill as it' sometimes referred to) is used to create an atmosphere that "tricks" (for lack of a better word) the sub woofer into thinking the enclosure is larger than it really is. So, if space is an issue, then you can build a slightly smaller enclosure than recommended and toss some poly fill in it to compensate.
TimmyB
06-21-2009, 05:18 PM
God dam it matt, stop acting like I know your terms. Now whats an Aero port?? haha And space is no issue, the enclosure for this sub is small. I was actually trying to get demensions to make the H.O. enclosure. It wont be exact, but I think I have an idea when looking at the cross section JL has on there site of it, using my scaleing ruler to find lengths and widths of everything. Im just not sure if they have extra bracing in there that they dont show in the diagram of it. I tried to google if anyone has made one but no success so far.
Karpe
06-21-2009, 06:01 PM
God dam it matt, stop acting like I know your terms. Now whats an Aero port??
http://forums.trinituner.com/upload/Picture%20286.jpg
God dam it matt, stop acting like I know your terms. Now whats an Aero port?? haha And space is no issue, the enclosure for this sub is small. I was actually trying to get demensions to make the H.O. enclosure. It wont be exact, but I think I have an idea when looking at the cross section JL has on there site of it, using my scaleing ruler to find lengths and widths of everything. Im just not sure if they have extra bracing in there that they dont show in the diagram of it. I tried to google if anyone has made one but no success so far.
haha, my bad.
Here's an aero port (flared)
http://www.parts-express.com/wizards/searchResults.cfm?srchExt=CAT&srchCat=143&CFID=9870449&CFTOKEN=57166703
TimmyB
06-22-2009, 10:18 AM
Ok, just a tube basically. I did some reading on this from the JL site.
What do you think about this idea that popped in my head. Instead of running my rear componants install 6" JL audio subs run off the front channels of my 450/1 at 150 watts each in low pass. Then run my front XR's off the rear channels at 75 watts each, then keep my 10W6v2 running off the 500/1. People say rears are mostly useless anyways, so im figuring the 6" subs would be for mid bass.
Ok, just a tube basically. I did some reading on this from the JL site.
What do you think about this idea that popped in my head. Instead of running my rear componants install 6" JL audio subs run off the front channels of my 450/1 at 150 watts each in low pass. Then run my front XR's off the rear channels at 75 watts each, then keep my 10W6v2 running off the 500/1. People say rears are mostly useless anyways, so im figuring the 6" subs would be for mid bass.
I'd prefer to get as much power as you can to the XR's. Remember the passive crossover can eat up as much as 15-30% of power before it reaches the mid/tweet. As for the rears, I'd either run nothing, or a low powered, low-crossed coaxial set - you could do the 6" woofers, but I don't think that would be worth the cost. I say try it out without any rears and see how you like it. I keep mine faded completely gone unless I have some passengers back there.
TimmyB
06-22-2009, 10:40 AM
Thats another thing I heard someone say on a site, people were saying rears are a waste but one person mentioned he has alot of passengers in the rear so its nice to have something back there for them to listen too. kinda makes sence to me. I didnt want to go coaxial because i heard componants are superior to them. I just went with the cheaper TR's, just to throw something in there. Its just with those the crossover is built right on the woofer with no adjustment capabilities. So when I am setting the amp I just set it to high pass and thats it??
Its been raining since saturday night around here, so working on my sub enclosure. Coming out great so far. Is it a good idea to double up the front face of the box with two sheets of MDF? Im counter sinking the lip of the sub slightly so its sitting on the MDF and not on the carpet, plus theres a foam gasket around it that I dont think would seal good enough if over the carpet. Im going crazy with my router making slots for everything to fit into nice and tight, then bracing all the corners with wedges of additional MDF. Im following this guys ideas.
http://www.caraudioclassifieds.org/forum/showthread.php?p=143471#post143471
Thats another thing I heard someone say on a site, people were saying rears are a waste but one person mentioned he has alot of passengers in the rear so its nice to have something back there for them to listen too. kinda makes sence to me. I didnt want to go coaxial because i heard componants are superior to them. I just went with the cheaper TR's, just to throw something in there. Its just with those the crossover is built right on the woofer with no adjustment capabilities. So when I am setting the amp I just set it to high pass and thats it??
Components are superior (for the most part) to coaxials, but it's really a moot point when this discussion is for the rears. They are in such a low-impact location that you won't be able to tell the difference between the stockers or $1,000 components; if you can, then your sound stage is fawked up.
You should set them to full-range or have them low passed - and fade them out.
Its been raining since saturday night around here, so working on my sub enclosure. Coming out great so far. Is it a good idea to double up the front face of the box with two sheets of MDF? Im counter sinking the lip of the sub slightly so its sitting on the MDF and not on the carpet, plus theres a foam gasket around it that I dont think would seal good enough if over the carpet. Im going crazy with my router making slots for everything to fit into nice and tight, then bracing all the corners with wedges of additional MDF. Im following this guys ideas.
http://www.caraudioclassifieds.org/forum/showthread.php?p=143471#post143471
Double baffle can never hurt, and it's perfect for counter sinking, so yeah, if you plan to countersink the woofer, then double up the whole face.
TimmyB
06-22-2009, 04:29 PM
So with the rears turn the high pass filter completely off, since there's only a high pass switch with off/12db/24db? The fronts have a LP/BP/HP switch though. Yea, when I finally have this up and running im sure i'll be calling you to help me figure the settings out. lol.
So with the rears turn the high pass filter completely off, since there's only a high pass switch with off/12db/24db? The fronts have a LP/BP/HP switch though. Yea, when I finally have this up and running im sure i'll be calling you to help me figure the settings out. lol.
For the fronts you'll want to high pass them.
I'd say cross them at 80hz, let the sub take from 60hz and under. If you have 18db/oct as an option go with that, otherwise I'd use 24db/oct.
For the rears, you can leave them full-range and just fade them out a little. You don't want them to disrupt your sound stage all that much.
TimmyB
06-22-2009, 06:16 PM
i have either 12db or 24 db settings. Doesnt matter anyways right now, cuz like I said i'll be calling you, or pay for you to fly out and help. haha.
i have either 12db or 24 db settings. Doesnt matter anyways right now, cuz like I said i'll be calling you, or pay for you to fly out and help. haha.
hahaha, pay me to fly out! :D :p jk, I don't mind helping, anytime bud!
TimmyB
06-23-2009, 09:45 AM
Is power wire the same as speaker wire? I have 16' of 8 gauge JL meta wire, was wondering if it is the same useing that for my sub wires from the amp and inside the enclosure. If not I have alot of JL 12 gauge speaker wire or a slightly larger Monster Cable speaker wire I can use, the same I ran for my fronts going into the doors.
Is power wire the same as speaker wire? I have 16' of 8 gauge JL meta wire, was wondering if it is the same useing that for my sub wires from the amp and inside the enclosure. If not I have alot of JL 12 gauge speaker wire or a slightly larger Monster Cable speaker wire I can use, the same I ran for my fronts going into the doors.
Wire is wire my friend. The biggest difference you'll find is strand count (i.e. flexibility) and size (gauge).
For your sub you'll be fine with either the 8 gauge or the 12 gauge.
TimmyB
06-23-2009, 10:21 AM
Wire is wire my friend. The biggest difference you'll find is strand count (i.e. flexibility) and size (gauge).
For your sub you'll be fine with either the 8 gauge or the 12 gauge.
Awesome. The JL 8 gauge I have is left over from the dual amp kit I bought for my two amps, but I ran the 4 gauge for the power wire and had plenty left to run 4 gauge from the block to both amps and then I bought another 6' length of JL ground wire. So instead of my original plan of using the 12 gauge speaker wire i'll use the left over 8 gauge wire that has 735 strands I believe. Its the better wire they have, the one with the colored shielding that can be removed to show the clear shielding below. Guess they market it for instead of buying 2 diff colored wires you can just buy one large length of this stuff for power and ground.
Awesome. The JL 8 gauge I have is left over from the dual amp kit I bought for my two amps, but I ran the 4 gauge for the power wire and had plenty left to run 4 gauge from the block to both amps and then I bought another 6' length of JL ground wire. So instead of my original plan of using the 12 gauge speaker wire i'll use the left over 8 gauge wire that has 735 strands I believe. Its the better wire they have, the one with the colored shielding that can be removed to show the clear shielding below. Guess they market it for instead of buying 2 diff colored wires you can just buy one large length of this stuff for power and ground.
Cool, now get your ass back to work... I want to see this thing complete! :D
TimmyB
06-23-2009, 03:35 PM
I happen to come across this guys site online, he writes about speaker wireing and the differences/non-differences. I got a good read from it. Made alot of sense to me.
http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm
Andy, check these out...
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=296-616&ctab=1#Tabs
Look at the fawkin' FR plot :eek:
That sucker can play cleanly up to 4,000hz! You'll likely run into beaming if you go that high, but at that depth it may be another 8" to consider.
I've got a decent list of drivers saved in a Word doc for my upcoming re-build. Researching sucks, lol.
Hope you're taking plenty of pics at SEMA!!
TimmyB
11-08-2009, 03:23 PM
Im still lost with setting my amps and my head unit. I set my amp knobs and havent touched them in forever and then started messing with the head unit settings. Maybe this isnt a simple question to ask, but should I have my head units settings set to 0, like for the bass, highpass cutoffs, subwoofer cutoffs, and just be messing with my JL amp settings? My Ipod music just started sounding good now that I turned the "sound retreiver" setting to +3, the same with the CD player. Seems when I raised them from my head unit the highs and bass got much "louder". But with setting them higher should I reset my amp gains?
Im still lost with setting my amps and my head unit. I set my amp knobs and havent touched them in forever and then started messing with the head unit settings. Maybe this isnt a simple question to ask, but should I have my head units settings set to 0, like for the bass, highpass cutoffs, subwoofer cutoffs, and just be messing with my JL amp settings? My Ipod music just started sounding good now that I turned the "sound retreiver" setting to +3, the same with the CD player. Seems when I raised them from my head unit the highs and bass got much "louder". But with setting them higher should I reset my amp gains?
If there are redundant settings between the amps and the deck, then defer to the deck for simplicity and convenience. What settings do you ahve and what are you looking to set?
By the way Andy, I bought a set of the SLS 6.5's :D :D
Karpe
11-11-2009, 07:35 PM
Nice!
Karpe
11-11-2009, 09:01 PM
alpine, H-Audio, Seas, Stereo Integrity, Sundown,Knu Concepts, Street wires....etc
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y117/Bow2Zeus/lastmaybe.jpg
Now get that shit installed!!!
TimmyB
11-13-2009, 06:03 PM
I like those mids.
chefalan23
11-15-2009, 06:52 PM
i love the "proudly made in china"....thats an oxymoron if ive ever heard one
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