SRT Turbo

[SRTDZGN]

Found this on Ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120559646792&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
For all you 6.1 guys, seems like a good deal to me.

[Mike_Levy]

I will be bidding on that. Its will take alot of knowledge to make it work, which is probably why nobody bid on it.

I wish you hadn't posted it and gotten me possible competition. :(

[SRTDZGN]

Sorry, just trying to help out JG memebers.:(

[Black Ops Auto Works]

I would of bid on it but when I called they new little about it just the size of the turbo.
I consider myself quite crafty and have bought kits like that before. I can't bring myself to bit on it however. Without knowing the make of the turbo I don't see it being worth it. If the turbo's broke or a cheap brand your bidding on a 1k piping kit. You can get a piping kit brand new for 800 somewhere else. I'd rather spend 800 on piping and piece it together that way at least I know what I have when I'm done.

[Mike_Levy]

Its a Turbonetics T70. Thats all they were able to tell me. I have a PM into the other place about the piping kit, but haven't heard back. I can get T70s all day long for $178, so that was how I wanted to go too. Maybe he'll repond before I snipe this kit at the end. ;)

[Black Ops Auto Works]

Cool Mike they couldn't even tell me that and I asked too. I like Turbonetics. That's defiantly a plus.
Something else I can't get by is I'm trying to put that kit together in my head and it seems like it's missing a piece or two. I'm sure I'm wrong but if I'm not!!!

The vendor on here Northcoat turbo systems or something like that said he can sell a piping kit for their setup for 800. plus if you can get a T70 for $178.00 for $978.00. All you will need is an intercooler, Blowoff, Wastegate, Fuel setup and Injectors witch you still need with this kit. sure it's over 1k but it's all new.
O.K. those are all the reasons I can't bring myself to it. Oh one more thing it looks like their is a silicone tube from the back to the front intercooler Not too sure if that's good or bad. I think I'd rather have it all Aluminum.

What's your thoughts Mike?

[Escape]

If you really want to turbocharge your HEMI you should just contact North Coast Turbo Systems for a proven well developed system that has all the best parts, customer support that is second to none, comes with warranty and I know he has 2 complete kits for the 6.1 ready to go just waiting for a buyer!

I searched and called everyone for over 2 yrs while planning my F/I build and NCTS is the way to go. Heck my Jeep was the one the 5.7 system was prototyped on and I don't let just anyone work on my Jeep. The only people to ever turn a wrench on it have been NCTS, SharaDon and myself.

[Knightrider03m]

If you really want to turbocharge your HEMI you should just contact North Coast Turbo Systems for a proven well developed system that has all the best parts, customer support that is second to none, comes with warranty and I know he has 2 complete kits for the 6.1 ready to go just waiting for a buyer!

I searched and called everyone for over 2 yrs while planning my F/I build and NCTS is the way to go. Heck my Jeep was the one the 5.7 system was prototyped on and I don't let just anyone work on my Jeep. The only people to ever turn a wrench on it have been NCTS, SharaDon and myself.

What is your track times with the T/C

[Mike_Levy]

Cool Mike they couldn't even tell me that and I asked too. I like Turbonetics. That's defiantly a plus.
Something else I can't get by is I'm trying to put that kit together in my head and it seems like it's missing a piece or two. I'm sure I'm wrong but if I'm not!!!

What's your thoughts Mike?

Its definetly missing a few things. Theres not enough piping there to get you to the back and then back to the front. I'm also not seeing the oil lines, or any sort of vacuum manifold.

The biggest problem I have with the NCTS setup is that they don't have any sort of provision for an intercooler. They use methanol injection instead. I have a problem with that. I won't spray meth into my motor. Wouldn't when I had a stock supercharger on my GTP and won't now. IMO, with a turbo, you need a good front mount air to air intercooler.

[Black Ops Auto Works]

I did know know that about the NCTS intercooler. That's something I'm really not interested in. Thanks for adding that. It's just a small but of info.

[Escape]

The biggest problem I have with the NCTS setup is that they don't have any sort of provision for an intercooler. They use methanol injection instead. I have a problem with that. I won't spray meth into my motor. Wouldn't when I had a stock supercharger on my GTP and won't now. IMO, with a turbo, you need a good front mount air to air intercooler.

If your that dead set on an air to air front mount have one plumbed in.

I don't know why people think Meth injection is the boogy man. What exactly is your problem with it?

Here are some of the advantages of Meth:

Meth provides a cooler intake charge vs standard intercooling.

Meth provided a octane boost, standard intercooling does not.

Meth will quench the cylinder and piston, slow the flame front and reduce knock by preventing preignition of your unburnt fuel at wot, standard intercooling does not.

Meth uses a jet injection nozzel vs a large volume intercooler that will cause your air charge to expand (pressure/efficiency loss) and then re-pressurize back into the intake piping (more pressure and efficiency loss).

No heat soak with Meth.

Meth is not dependent on outside air temps.

Meth is not dependent on the air flow over your intercooler (how fast your going) Meth is there as soon as your into boost.

And there are many other benefits of a proper Meth setup.

Before anyone asks what if the system fails. There are many safety features that are in the system and there to protect your engine and just like any other high hp setup maintenance and tuning is key.

In the end it's everyone choice but Meth does have it's advantages when used properly and safely.

[Mike_Levy]

I'm just squeemish about spraying a liquid into my motor. I'm the same way with nitrous.

[DJ BoNiOmArIo]

not to be stepping on toes you don't wanna spray liquid into the motor yet nothing but liquids and air gets pumped in there also the fact that if going F/I that is adding more pressure to the motor which can be worse for than adding meth just imho

[Escape]

What is your track times with the T/C

None as of yet, still building the monster.

My SharaDon stage 3 trans and valve body are in-route and will be delivered this week (was hoping today, probably tomorrow) and my longtubes are here already. As soon as I can get some lift time they will be installed (a week or 3 I'd say). Once that is complete then I'll be removing my torque limiters through a CMR and we will see what the current 12psi can do. Then an upgraded fuel setup and see what 20psi will do. If it's still not fast/scary enough I'm thinking a 100-150 shot of some NO2 at wot.

[DJ BoNiOmArIo]

WOW James that's gonna be a monster bro !!!

[Tim@NCTSLLC]

I'm just squeemish about spraying a liquid into my motor. I'm the same way with nitrous.

It is not really a liquid but a fog that vaporizes in the air stream. Been around before WW2. Intercooler drops temp 30-40 degrees,water/meth drops chamber temp 200-300 degrees. If must have intercooler go with water to air, more compact, more efficient, less pressure drop. Original 5.7 kit on LX 4 years ago had intercooler, did not control knock and caused boost lag in first gear. Dropped it like a hot potato, and been spraying for 65,000 miles now.

[Mike_Levy]

Just read up on Snow Performances site. I think I may end up using methanol in addition to an air to air. Not the way you guys do it though. I'm thinking that I'd use the XV manifold, and put a carb injection plate in between the plenum and manifold. I'm cool with losing some torque from the XV, because it looks awesome.

I'll hit you up in a few days Tim. Gotta see if we can set up a package of the stuff I need.

[Black Ops Auto Works]

Sweet mike!! I hope I didn't talk you out of the Ebay deal LOL. Tim is a top notch guy I'm sure you'll be happy with whatever you guys work out he's easy to talk to and very knowledgeable when it comes to turbo stuff. Good Luck!!!

[Mike_Levy]

Well, since we have a turbo thread, I'd like to get some thoughts from you guys.

Single vs Twins?
Front mount vs Rear?

[DJ BoNiOmArIo]

I'm no expert but I don't think there is enough space for a front mount in the SRT

and if ur gonna do rears then dual since you have the dual exhaust system ...

[Mike_Levy]

Hellion has twin front mounts in progress, and Hennessey has twin front mounts in their $20k(!) kit.

[DJ BoNiOmArIo]

I stand corrected :D

[kmitch80]

20k for a turbo kit?? sriously!? they better cook me dinner and sing to me before F***N me! considering the parts only run about 4000

[Mike_Levy]

Hennessey overcharges for everything. Plus they also include the engine internals to make sure it doesn't blow up.

[Escape]

Well, since we have a turbo thread, I'd like to get some thoughts from you guys.

Single vs Twins?
Front mount vs Rear?

This is just a quick overview but should help you out.

There are several different types of a turbo setup. Single, separate twin, sequential twins and a twincharged setup. There is also the variable geometry single turbocharger.

Single vs Separate Twins is purely a show point. Since each turbo is separate from the other they are each only getting half of the exhaust gasses to power them, hence smaller turbos are used. This does allow them to spool very fast but can (if not sized properly) hoke the engine up top. Since each turbo is also flowing into a Y pipe before the throttle body they MUST be perfectly setup or one turbo will choke the other. The boost will follow the path of least resistance being the other turbo.

A benefit would be that each turbo is smaller and can be fit relatively easy on each side of a V style engine from the factory. Drawback is that you have more components/systems. Seen below.

http://image.carcraft.com/f/12498952/ccrp_0812_02_z+1967_chevy_nova_twin_turbo+engine_v iew.jpg

Now lets look at sequential twins (one powers the other)

This compound system when setup properly runs cooler and provides more power quicker, but it is very complex to setup and tune as it is a boost multiplier. Seen below.

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/twin_turbo.jpg

We also have the Twincharged setup incorporating a supercharger into a turbo setup. This is a boost multiplier setup as well and when setup and tuned perfectly is offers the best of both worlds with the only drawback being the complexity and proper function of the setup.

You get the awesome low end torque of the supercharger (boost is instant) and when the charge is at it's optimum from the supercharger the large turbo takes over and the supercharger is mechanically decoupled from the drive belt and bypassed in the piping. If a supercharger which produced 10psi (pressure ratio = 1.7) alone blew into a turbocharger which also produced 10psi alone, the resultant manifold pressure would be 27psi (PR=2.8) rather than 20psi (PR=2.3). Getting the transition right is the challenge! Seen below.

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/attachments/engine-conversions/102930d1210989629-8v-2l-twin-charged-my-little-project-329157_35_full.jpg

Lets look at the variable geometry single turbo. This turbo alters the angle of the intake vanes to allow for an almost instant response.

Used by:
- Many turbo diesel engines
- 1989 Honda Legend Wing Turbo
- 1989 Shelby CSX (Garrett)
- Porsche 997 Turbo (BorgWarner)
- The Jeep Grand Cherokee WK has an option of 3.0 liter Mercedes-Benz OM642 CRD V6 engine with Honeywell-Garrett VGT.

Low RPM

http://www.autozine.org/technical_school/engine/VTG_2.jpghttp://www.autozine.org/technical_school/engine/VTG_4.jpghttp://www.autozine.org/technical_school/engine/VTG_1a.jpg

High RPM

http://www.autozine.org/technical_school/engine/VTG_3.jpghttp://www.autozine.org/technical_school/engine/VTG_5.jpghttp://www.autozine.org/technical_school/engine/VTG_1b.jpg

.................................

Remote vs front mount.

Each has it's advantage and disadvantage.

Remote:

Cooler operation
Cooler underhood temps
Cooler charge temps
Longer life span
Easy to access and maintain

More pipe to charge
More pipe to purchase and fit
Secondary Oil system
Best aftermarket solution

Front:

Hotter operation
Hotter underhood temps
Hotter charge temps
Shorter life span
Hard to access and maintain

Less pipe to charge
Less pipe to purchase and fit, if you can fit it in there!
Depending on placement may or may not need an aftermarket Oil system
Aftermarket solution will be very expensive

All in all a remote mount is the best choice and I believe the main reasons it was put directly on the manifold from the factory is ease of building a compact powerplant that is simply placed on the engine cradle and installed into the vehicle and also a refinement issue as I'm sure the standard driver doesn't want a beast as a daily driver as when a large single turbo hits you definitely know it!

The hit can be turned down but why would you want to do that!...LOL :cool:

[DJ BoNiOmArIo]

thanks for the amazing info James +rep for that one

[Mike_Levy]

Yeah, I'm thinking a single rear mount is gonna be the best way to go at this point. Been looking for a T88 to use, but they don't seem to ever come up on eBay. The smaller ones are alot cheaper and easier to find, but I don't wanna limit myself.

As far as why to reduce the hit, drivetrain longevity is the main reason. I've blown up more then my share of drivetrain components over the years, and I really don't wanna kill the Jeeps. Our stuff seems to be better then the GM garbage I'm used to grenading, but still, its gonna fail if abused.

[Escape]

Yeah, I'm thinking a single rear mount is gonna be the best way to go at this point. Been looking for a T88 to use, but they don't seem to ever come up on eBay. The smaller ones are alot cheaper and easier to find, but I don't wanna limit myself.

As far as why to reduce the hit, drivetrain longevity is the main reason. I've blown up more then my share of drivetrain components over the years, and I really don't wanna kill the Jeeps. Our stuff seems to be better then the GM garbage I'm used to grenading, but still, its gonna fail if abused.

Are you planning on a full engine/drivetrain swap also or are you going to stay low on the boost? Decide on your final HP goal and the amount of air you need to be pumping in and out then map out your turbo choice from there. That way you will be running it in it's optimum efficiency range.

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb42/DetachmentBravo/chart_exp.jpg

If your bored and want to hurt a brain cell or 2 :eek: with some math and physics take a read at the link below to correctly map out your choice of turbo. :thumbsup:

http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/turbocharging/41629-k20z3-turbocharger-analysis-turbo-maps.html

[Mike_Levy]

I will be building a bottom end for it at some point. I already have the top end done, though I'll swap to a turbo cam.

Drivetrain I'm not sure yet. Definetly a converter and valve body, but the rest of the tranny I'd rather not screw with. Transfer case has already been replaced several times, so a built one is probably inevitable, and the axles, when they break, I'll worry about them. :)

That turbo thread doesn't make much sense to me. Like I told Tim at NCTS, I'm far more used to and comfortable working with postive displacement superchargers. For this app though, turbo seems to be a better choice.

[Mike_Levy]

I don't suppose anyone would happen to have the Compressor map for a T88? Advan is selling them cheap and I think I may pick one up.

TURBO SPEC:

t-88 mid frame turbo charger

Intake :5 inch
Outlet: 107mm outter diameter, 82.35 inner diameter
Compressor trim: .60 ar (anti- surge)
Compressor Wheel diameter: 74.80 /102.40 (big wheel)
Turbine wheel diameter : 75.35 / 81.70
Exhaust trim: 1.05ar
Turbine flange type: t4 flange ( twin scroll )
Downpipe flange type : 6 bolt type
Cooling type: oil cool only
Horsepower rating: 1000hp+
(wet float bearing)


Can I even use this beast? I've never seen a 6 bolt downpipe flange.......